By Ahmed Eldin
In the Bible especially in the Old Testament, we find that drinking wine is prohibited. We see this prohibition at least in five places in the Old Testament. For example we read:
8. And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
9. Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: (Leviticus 10:9)
Notice that “God” (Jesus according to Christians) Says that it shall be a statute forever throughout your generation. Which means also for the days of Jesus and even it is a statute in nowadays for us.
In another verse we read:
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)
No comments! Very clear verse concerning what wine really is, and what it cause to human being.
In the same book we read:
For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. (Proverbs 4: 17)
Here we have another description of wine, which is violent.
In Isaiah we read:
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)
Here we have a detailed description of what damages and errors can occur through wine. We are told by “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) that the Priests and the Prophets erred, in other words wine brings “the incorrect” and the “error”, for example bible testify some “errors” from some prophets did through the wine:
The error of Prophet Noah:
20. And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21. And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. ( Genesis 9 :20-25)
The error of Prophet Lot:
31. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37. And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day. (Genesis 19: 31-38)
In The book of Joel we read:
Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)
Another clear prohibition of wine by “God” (Jesus according to Christians) calling the one who drinks wine “drunkard” and “for it is cut off from your mouth” which means that wine is forbidden.
Interesting is also the comparison that “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) use in order to describe what wine is equal with:
Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. ( Hosea 4:11)
In other words wine has the same results with prostitution! And they are equal.
In the Gospel of Luke, we read about the John the Baptist:
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. (Luke 1:15)
John the Baptist is described as an abstainer from wine and for that reason is great in the sight of the Lord.
As we noticed above from the biblical passages, it is quite clear that wine cause errors, and that “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) prohibited, condemn and many times curse it. Also it is prohibited “for ever throughout the generations” as mention in Leviticus 10:9.
But the real problem arise when “God” (Jesus according to Christians) came down and became human (only according to Christians) and BLESSED wine! As we read in the Gospel of John:
1. And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2. And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it .
6. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it .
9. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10. And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.( John 2: 1-10)
This is a famous miracle of Jesus, he changed the water into wine in order people to drink abundantly.
This is a clear contradiction. In one place we have “God” (Jesus according to Christians) who prohibited, cursed, and condemn wine in several places:
1) Leviticus 10:9
2) Proverbs 20:1 and 4:17
3) Isaiah 28:7
4) Joel 1:5
5) Hosea 4:11
6) Luke 1:15
And in other place the same God (Jesus according to Christians) bless the wine and changes the water into wine for people to drink abundantly:
1) John 2:1-10
The most important think to notice is that the same God after he prohibited in Leviticus 10:9 FOR EVER AND EVER, then he change his mind and bless it????
Another clear contradiction about the prohibition or if it is allowed the wine, we read the verse
And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? (Judge 9:13)
Here “God” described that Cheereth from wine. A total chaotic confusion. What is really going on with wine? Is it good or bad? Does God prohibited or allowed it? Is it cursed by God ? or Make God Chereeth?
If anyone can answer to this confusion that promotes Bible, which is obvious not the word of God, please contact me.
“Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:” (Leviticus 10:9)
Why do you twist the word of God? Clearly the verse says, “Do not drink wine… WHEN YE GO INTO THE TABERNACLE”. In addition, this command was given only to the priests, Aaron and his sons, not to every Jew.
It seems that you didn’t read my article as a whole. Leviticus 10:9 along with others references that I posted CONDEMNS wine and it is described as awful. Therefore very logically is PROHIBITED for a human being to drink it. This is also what the Book of Joel describes
“Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth”. (Joel 1:5)
The Bible never prohibits drinking wine. It condemns drunkenness. Two very different things.
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: “Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth…” (Gen 14:19)
How can you say that the bible never prohibit wine when i post you verses from the Bible? I posted to you Joel 1:5
also Bible describe wine as something DISCUSTING!
1) Leviticus 10:9
2) Proverbs 20:1 and 4:17
3) Isaiah 28:7
4) Joel 1:5
5) Hosea 4:11
6) Luke 1:15
I am talking with evidence you talk from your own perespective.
By Posting Gen 14:19 you further expose the contradictory nature of this issue about wine, In which i also elaborate in my article.
Again, be consistent
When you look at truth in the Bible, you must look at everything that is said on that subject.
For example, sex in the Bible can be both good or evil. Sex between a man and his wife is holy and good but sex between two men is a sin.
Eating is not a sin but eating excess and becoming a fat lazy man is sin.
Money is neither good nor bad but the love of money is evil.
Sex, wine, food and money are not bad by themselves but when a man abuses these things, they become sinful.
In fact, having wine was considered a blessing from God for the Jews.
Honor the LORD with your possessions, And with the firstfruits of all your increase; So your barns will be filled with plenty, And your vats will overflow with new wine. (Prov. 3:10)
THINGS are not sinful. PEOPLE are sinful. People take the good things that God has given and they abuse them until they become sinful.
Wine is not sinful but if I drink too much wine and I get drunk, it becomes sinful.
I appreciate the way of your thinking my friend but unfortunatelly you contradict the Bible. The Bible says that is cut off from their mouth
Joel 1:5. The Problem is that the Bible contradicts about the same issue(wine). For example not drinking wine ( not beacoming drunk) was an possitive think for John the baptist
Luke 1:15
Ahmed,
I think it is great that you are reading the Bible even though you want to use what you read to disprove the Bible. Keep reading!
Wine is not forbidden in the Bible except for the Priests. Even the priests were allowed to drink wine when they were at home and not at the Temple.
Drunkenness is forbidden but drinking wine is not forbidden.
Let’s look at the verse that you quoted –
Awake, you drunkards, and weep; And wail, all you drinkers of wine, Because of the new wine, For it has been cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)
Do you notice who God is talking to? He is talking to “drunkards”. Drunkards are people who drink all day long. They never do any work but all they want to do is get drunk all day and all night.
The God of the Bible is a God love not a God of rules and harsh judgment. He blesses His people with all good things – including wine. But when people take the good things that God has given and abuse them – like getting drunk every day – God will judge them.
If you will look at each verse honestly, you will see that there is no contradiction.
Ahmed,
Do you know that God loves you?
I would like to share the Gospel with you. This is what the Bible says about how a person can be saved and go to heaven.
First, the Bible says that every man has sinned. None of us can ever be good enough to go to heaven no matter how religious we are:
“There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Rom 3:10)
The Bible also says that all who have sinned must die. This is because God is holy. He is perfect and without sin and therefore He can never allow sinners into heaven – and we are all sinners –so every man who has ever lived is going die because of sin.
“The soul who sins shall die” (Eze 18:4)
So how can I go to heaven if I have sinned? Can I do good works and make myself good enough to go to heaven? Can I become very religious and do good works to get to heaven? The Bible says NO. There is no good work that you or I can do to earn a place in heaven. Even if you were to die a while doing something good it would not earn a place in heaven for you.
The Bible says that you are a lost sinner and you can never earn a place in heaven so how can you get to heaven?
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
How do you get to heaven? You ask Jesus to save you.
“if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rom 10:9)
Jesus paid the price for your sin on the when He died on the cross. Jesus did not die on the cross for His own sin – he did not have any sin – He died on the cross to pay the debt for your sin because He loves you.
God bless you Ahmed!
Ok then think about it. Why wine is forbidden to the Priests if it is good as you said? As for the verse that I posted, it seems that you misread it. Look carefully again what the verse emphasizes:
“Awake, you drunkards, and weep; and howl, all you drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.” ( Joel 1:5)
So as you see the verse separate the drunkards from the DRINKERS(socially). Drunkards and Socially Drinkers are cut off from drinking it.
Also my friend you failed to explain why the Biblical God condemns and curse the wine, for example:
Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. ( Hosea 4:11)
Why God equalize the wine with whoredom and says that take away the heart if it is good as you said? Don’t come up again and tell me that God implies the abuse of the wine here, sorry but it is not mentioned, the text clearly and simple says only wine. Again were told:
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)
Here the verse states that wine is a mocker and it is distinguished from strong drink. How in the light of these verses you say that wine is a good? If you come up with biblical verses and support that the wine is good and blessed thing then you only promote the contradiction as I posted to you the opposite view. Therefore it is clear that we have an inconsistency for the issue of wine.
Thanks a lot my friend that you want to share the gospel with me. But allow me to criticize the verses that you posted in order to share the gospel. Concerning Romans 3:10 says about “righteousness” not “sin”.
Furthermore you misquote the verse of Ezekiel 18:4 and you take it out of context here is the context in which disproves what you said:
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
5. But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6. And has not eaten on the mountains, neither has lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither has defiled his neighbor’s wife, neither has come near to a menstruous woman,
7. And has not oppressed any, but has restored to the debtor his pledge, has spoiled none by violence, has given his bread to the hungry, and has covered the naked with a garment;
8. He that has not given forth on usury, neither has taken any increase, that has withdrawn his hand from iniquity, has executed true judgment between man and man,
9. Has walked in my statutes, and has kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, said the Lord GOD. (Ezekiel 18: 4-9)
As you see my friend you brought up another contradiction. God says here that if he is just, then he will surely live. Keep in mind that Ezekiel contradicts the verse Romans 3:10 in which Paul says that no one is righteous, but God says there are righteous. For example:
And the LORD said to Noah, Come you and all your house into the ark; for you have I seen righteous before me in this generation.(Genesis 7:1)
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.( Genesis 15:6)
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:10)
For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:20)
There are plenty of verse that speaks about righteousness people. It is obvious my friend that Paul contradicts God and Jesus. Jesus never taught original sin as you claim (that we are sinners from the fault of Adam)
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven ( Matthew 18:1-4)
So as you can see my friend Jesus refutes original sin because he said that we must be like children in order to achieve heaven. Think about it, why he use as a standar a sinner? As you said we borned with original sin.
In Islam you get salvation by repenting sincere to God if you comited a sin or mistake. And worship Him Alone without accociate any partners with Him. In Islam we dont have original and inherited sin. Why carrying a sin that you dont have expernienced?
Ahmed,
Wine – I have given my response. If you only look at half of the verses, you can argue your point. But as I said before, you should look at everything God says about wine, not just half of what He says.
Romans 3:10 – “none righteous” means “all are sinners”. If you are righteous, you are NOT a sinner. If you are not righteous, then you ARE a sinner. If there are “none righteous” it means “all are sinners”.
Ezekiel 18:4-9 – You are correct. If you do everything in those verses you are righteous. The problem is that no one has ever been able to keep all of those commandments. Not one person who has ever lived has been able to do it – except Jesus. How about you? Do you keep all of the commandments? Have you kept them every day of your life? Have you ever broken one of them? If you have EVER broken ONE of them, then verse 4 applies to you – The soul that sins shall die.
Gen 7:1 – Noah was righteous because of his FAITH – not because he was a good person. (He got drunk)
Gen 15:6 – Abraham was righteous because of his FAITH – not because he was a good person. (He lied about his wife to save his own life)
Mat 5:10 – They are persecuted for their FAITH – not because they are good people.
Mat 5:20 – The scribes and Pharisees are NOT righteous because they do NOT have faith – That is why they do NOT enter the kingdom of heaven.
You say, “There are plenty of verses that speak about righteous people”. You are correct. But if you are willing to study each person, you will find that ALL of them are righteous because of FAITH – not because they were good people. That is why the Bible says, “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him form the dead, you will be saved.” – because salvation is only by faith – not by being good.
Ahmed, if you earn a place in heaven by being good, then God OWES you heaven. That means that God is in DEBT to you – He owes you Heaven. But God will NEVER be a debtor to any man. That is why the Bibles says,
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
If you can work your way to heaven by being good then you can boast that you are better than everyone. But God hates boasting. God will not allow you to boast and He will NOT be your debtor. You CANNOT make God owe you anything. You cannot make God owe you heaven.
Mat 18:1-4 – When Jesus taught us to become like little children He is NOT saying that little children do not sin, He is saying that little children TRUST their parents. They have FAITH in their father to provide for all of their food and love and clothing. Jesus is teaching that we should have faith in God and trust Him to provide all of our needs for food and clothing and love. We are to have FAITH in God just like a little child has faith in their father and mother.
When a small child takes a toy and hits their younger brother with it, did they have to be taught to do that? Do you have to teach your children to lie? They do these things thet are BORN with a SIN nature. That is why they lie and hit and scream even when they are very young.
Suppose that I murder someone. Do you think that I should be punished in jail or executed? Suppose I am very repentant and I promise that I will never murder again. Should I be set free from jail because I am repentant?
How can Ala forgive sin just because you are repentant? That is not righteous. Sin must be punished even if we are sorry and repentant just like the murderer must be punished in jail even when he is repentant.
I am sorry that this response is so long. Maybe we could talk about one subject at a time instead of so many subjects at once.
God bless you Ahmed
Each and every thing you said my friend is not supported from the Bible. But it is your own understanding and interpretantion. For example. The Bible clearly says that these people is rightesous FULL STOP not specifing by faith or not. By adopting your logic also Romans speak about rightesous in faith. If i got heaven is because the mercy of God covers me, not because i earned it. I do good deeds and have faith only because God said it in the Quran and by that i will have a good social life.
Concerning Jesus and children, again you give your own theory. Jesus never said about children trusting their parents but he said clearly that you must be like a child ( and specified one child among them) to achieve heaven. How he used a child in which is a sinner as you said as a standard?
Finally dont compare God rules and human rules. Humans will punish But God if you ask forgiveness will forgive as long as you are sincere.
I kindly invite you to debate this issue as ” Forgiveness: by Christ or Repentance? In my paltalk room,,we can scedule the format.
Ahmed,
I would like to apologize for some mistakes I have made. First, I want to apologize for the war in Iraq. I do not believe that the United States should have attacked Iraq. I cannot understand all of the pain and suffering that my county – a country that is supposed to be a Christian country but is not – has caused so many innocent people in Iraq. I want you to know that not everyone in the United States believes that the war was necessary. I do not know where you are from but I know that Iraq is largely a Muslim people and I wish that we would never have entered a Muslim county uninvited. – Please forgive us.
Next, I would like to apologize for misspelling Allah. I know that Allah is probably the most important part of your life. – Please forgive me.
I also want to apologize for suggesting that Allah is not righteous. I do not know enough about your faith to come to that conclusion. – Please forgive me.
I hope that we can continue to talk about the Bible and Christianity in an open and loving way.
Sure my friend, no need to apologize. Hope to accept my invitation for a debate.